A Walk on Mount-Royal with Karma Gleder

IM: How are you doing Sus?

KG: I'm good, man. How are you?

IM: I’m good. Thanks…. especially for meeting me on a weekend. I appreciate that and the timeout it takes.

KG: I've been looking forward to this for years at this point.

IM: Now, just to remind, our or to inform our listeners, you and I had discussed this walk for quite a long time now. So I am thrilled that we were able to celebrate your new album “From The Haze Of A Revved Up Youth“ while tying in one of my favourite places to be.

KG: Absolutely.

IM: This has become a of meditation for me, in that I take my bike up the mountain every morning, and it's really become a great place for me to dig into new music….and absorb albums away from the computer, which seems to be where we are tethered to these days. I was wondering, how do you consume music? How do you discover new music?

KG: Good question. First off, just, yeah, I'm so stoked to finally get to do this because I think we've been talking about this walk since like, lockdown days or something.

IM: It was 2022, I think. (ed.note:It was 2020. See GGRMS Sept. 25, 2020 in the Archive).

KG: Wow. That makes me think back… you know, you and I being not exactly the same age…. And by the way, are you 50 now?

IM: I am 50 now. I will warn you though, and maybe this isn't the case with everyone, but around 47, I started having, I don't know, I'm not going to chalk it up to a midlife crisis, but there were some changes in me that I wasn't expecting. For the better… in hindsight, but back then, I thought it was sort of like hitting a wall.

KG: Emotionally? Physically?

IM: Emotionally, I think physically, it motivated me to sort of put aside some bad habits.. you know, patterns that maybe, one can only do for so long. Move towards a better state physically, I guess, and mentally as well.

KG: That shit is important, man…., and thank you for the.... foresight. I've been having emotional crisis since I was 12, so I'm already there. But I mean, yeah, I just I bring up the age thing because you know, we talked about this, but to bring up the fact that we both started getting into music in a very different landscape of consummation and propagation, how we heard about bands and stuff like that, there's been so much change in the past few years. I love coming here because when I I moved to Montreal is 2005 and I lived at the McGill Dorm, like, right behind this park.

IM: So this is your old stomping ground?

KG: In a way, yeah, but it brings me back to that. I remember moving here, no phone, no laptop, which seems weird now, to be a 17 year old, and to not be plugged in. I was just listening to CDs, I was like, going on Napster, talking to my friends, hearing about stuff from, you know, word of mouth… that sort of stuff.

And I wasn't necessarily listening to it on, like, the greatest formats, but that changed so much, and you know, we've seen, like, the rise and fall of Myspace and iTunes and hopefully Spotify, you know, that's all changed, the game and how you know, we release the musicians how it feels. But I think maybe what you're talking about, too, like, coming full circle a little bit and getting back to the word mouth, getting back to just people suggesting bands to me … "Yo, there's this shit hot Chicago band playing L’esco, that, like, 10 people know about. We should go check them out” … and that'll be kind of much more fulfilling, and I feel like… I don't know, it taps into, something more core to me about music and connection, than just being a part of my Spotify algorithm which very accurately saw that I like these bands, so it suggesst some other band that probably has some, label who's also investing in Spotify or whatever, like, commercial aspect of it. So I'm trying to do that more and more. Honestly, I'm not really, like checking out as much any music these days, perhaps as a result of being on the other side of 35, but. I’m just trying to go see more music, trying to be more present to word of mouth than what's going on that level than algorithmically.

IM:I liken Rock and Roll as a force.. an elemental force, like compared to an elemental force in nature much like fire. Fire can like keep you warm and safe, It can also burn you. Water. can nurse you. It can also drown you. Earth can give you a foundation to build on. It’ll also bury you. And then, of course, air. gives us life and breath. But it can also poison you when tainted.

KG: Sure.

IM: I feel given your personal journey, rock and roll is similar to those elements.

KG: I agree.

Your journey through, rock and roll has been the back and forth of this force… and you've come out the other side.

IM: Can you talk about how rock and roll initially took hold of you?

KG:Yeah, great question, man. I love the way you phrased that.

Tangentially, it kind of also makes me realize maybe some of the older karmalider releases, the first one, it was kind of like “water ecentric” and there's some fire elements, too. I think I am just kind of fascinated by those larger than life elements that can kind of empower you or take you under, and rock and roll is definitely that for me. I know that when I was… this isn't an uncommon story, but being like, 14, 15, feeling like an outsider and high school and my family and all that stuff. And again, this would be kind of nascent, online music culture, more like blog era and stuff. But I do remember going to a record store or maybe my friend had gone to a record store and bought a Velvet Underground record.

And at that point, I'd just been listening to the top 40 and stuff, and it's kind of cliché, but just that.. That musically lyrically, the whole vibe, just connected with me on a core level, and perhaps to a fault. It felt like those were my friends, more so, I had friends, too, but, like, just, you know, listening to the stooges and stuff by myself and John Cale and Patti Smith. that really became kind of like a core part of my identity. Perhaps to a fault too, 'cause, you know, you get a little bit older and you start growing up and you realize, like, these are just songs that someone wrote when they were, like, 20 years old.

You shouldn't necessarily base your life and relationships and choices on destructive, romantic poets from the '70s or something. I think we perhaps talked about this…. There's that Ian Svenonious, called, "Supernatural Strategies for Making a Rock 'n' Roll Group".

Buy: Supernatural Strategies For Making A Rock ‘N Roll Group

Yeah, just maybe, seeing some of that critique, realizing that a lot of this was just, a commercialized narrative to sell records to teenagers. I was 14 when The Strokes popped off to that whole image of a lush, early 20s, New York urban nights, was just so intoxicating. I tried to replicate it a lot, but maybe now I kind of look back and to decouple what the actual connection and purity of rock and roll was to me, which I still believe in, versus this, glamour that's fabricated and very commercial, and I think I've wavered back and forth and obviously, there's so much narrative around… I hate even saying the cliché sex drugs and rock and roll… but that was definitely a big part of my life for a long time, and I think I leaned very heavily into that, to the point of destruction, frankly.

So, yeah, and thankfully to get out of that and be in a healthier place, and then also retain what it was that even attracted me on a more spiritual level to rock.

IM: Well, if you look back to that old adage or saying, I don't know who coined it, but for everyone that heard the Velvet Underground, because it really was an underground entity for decades, ended up forming a band of their own. I like the romance of that echo.

KG: I think Brian Eno said it actually.

IM:There you go. So I love the the romance of that echo and how you discovered them, and then you discovered The Strokes. It had been said about The Strokes that, you know, they were an echo of The Velvet Underground. And now Karma Glider, you know, if it started you on your journey, Karma Glider definitely has a notch on that belt.

Intentional or not, the line from Rock and Roll that says, “I fuck with rock and roll”. Shares a duality to these years, it being. almost like the dangers of rock and roll… picking a fight with Rock and Roll…becoming a victim of Rock and Roll…but as the kids today say, when you “fuck with something”, it's a sign of respect or you know, something that you love. In your time going through the thick of past addictions and then sobriety.. were there songs that for you, might have carried that same duality?

KG: A great question, yeah, and I'm glad because I was a little hesitant about that lyric and chorus. I guess I was intending for it to be kind of tossed off, but also.. respectful or something.

IM: I think it was one of the first lines, I mean, it is on the first song, that struck a chord with me. And I think there's a lot of lyrical content on this album that on first hearing might seem simple, but there's actually a lot of double meaning, at least again, to these years… or more profound observations.

KG: I'm really happy to hear that. Yeah, I definitely intended for it to be kind of a dual purpose.. Perhaps, like, something one would say with naiveté or maybe with melancholy, depending on the context.

But yeah, no, in terms of songs where I feel like that, I think because I was also maybe trying to capture that vibe, where it is something that meant a lot to me and was sort of a life force, rock music, but then also led me to behave destructively, immediately, I'm thinking of that Kinks song, I'm not like everybody else.

It's like, something a five year old would say. Just a certain attitude, it's like, like, a statement of uniqueness or like something you can kind of cloak yourself with to armour against the world or something. I think I was trying to go for that, that vibe and that Kinks song. “I’m not like everybody else” is kind of a sad thing to say the end of the day, but I used to also to be like, “fuck everyone else”, man. I'm with Ray Davies, we're special or something.

IM: It's funny, I found that song initially through being a fan of Camper Van Beethoven. There’s a line that goes “I don’t take clothes that are hand me downs” But at the time, you know, thrift shop clothing was the norm and, you know, if you owned anything new, it was sort of a a shady prospect. Vey not punk or outsider. so I always got a little laugh at sort of the “time out of placeness” of it when I got into it.

KG: I also rewatched The Sopranos for, like, the third time recently, and one of the episodes ends with that. After Tony was doing some, like crazy shit. And it also reminds me of like, yeah, like, I can kind of justify your immoral behaviour with this this idea of being special.

IM: I'd like to talk about the song Eclipse. I really like the imagery of “Love like a siren calling it to a ship, guiding you into the shadow of an eclipse”. A rare moment that regards a specific time, much like one might argue falling in love or whatever initiates that feeling of love. Can you discuss love as a theme or a central character through From The Haze Of A Revved Up Youth?

KG: Yeah, well, I do think it was kind of referring to a specific relationship, but also just generally, like, the kind of siren call of overwhelming emotion, essentially taking over a rational mind. I think that song was about being drawn to, you know, people or places or things, just kind of not really understanding why, but feeling this overwhelming urge to move towards something, to move back towards something, which is kind of something I've done a lot of in my life, and yeah, it can sometimes lead to pain, but there's also beauty in that process I guess I was just in that moment trying to capture, even just the musical vibe of the song, and maybe there’s something a bit like melancholic about that.

IM: Is there a song from your youth or from the first point in your life where maybe you fell in love for the first time? That soundtracked your experience, that you either can or cannot go back to today.

KG: There might be a few. Maybe I've been able to reclaim some of those songs. I remember listening to Under Control byThe Strokes, which I used to listen to with my first girlfriend, and for a long time, I just think of her and. I mean, I've not thought of her in years, to be honest, or spoken to her in. But, yeah, there's The Radio Dept. I'm really into them also, and they have a song (“Heaven’s On Fire”) that maybe reminds me a lot of a specific person and music can be really powerful. It can really take you back to certain people or places or things, times… this is definitely a recurring theme on the record. This kind of intoxication and just being drawn towards something over and over again, like, to move towards that feeling, even if it's not the healthiest thing for you.

IM: I didn't pick up on it until you said it right now, but that concept of you moving through and past, demons or crutches that might have intoxicated you in the past. And yet human nature has that same element when one is in love or falling out of love. So no matter how hard someone gets through intoxication, you know, outside chemicals or whatnot, nature will always remind you that, being intoxicated is part of being human when it comes to emotions.

KG: Absolutely, and you know, I'm prolific armchair of psychologist, so. I, like many others of my generation consume lots of pop psychology. YouTube videos and stuff, , a lot of this stuff is just engrained and I guess in Eclipse, the song, I'm also kind of like the bridge, I'm talking about, a car veering off in towards something. dangerous, essentially, but Im' feeling comfortable. The mythology of a siren… it's not a happy ending or necessarily good thing. But, yeah, like, a lot of that stuff is just chemical, at some point, you learn what's comfortable or what you think is good for you, and you move towards it.

IM: Just a little note on what you said about pop music, sort of being for your generation, and I think for all generations that get into music… it doesn't have to be pop music, but it has acted as an armchair psychologist to us all, and I can't help but feel like some of those important bands to me growing up, whether it's The Cure with Robert Smith.. he helped guide me through heartbreak or...

KG: You and me both.

IM: One of the songs from Wish, which is a devastatingly sad song titled Apart, confluenced with my first love and break up. It's a song that I really still to this day, can't really go back to. So maybe I have to do my own work and reclaim it.

For your track Sunbeats, I was able to had the priveledge of absorbing it while on vacation. I think I mentioned to you in our pitch for this interview, the tying of music in motion or being in motion, whether that's a motion that you're going through in your own life, or whether it's actual motion of displacing yourself and ending up somewhere else.

Imentioned at the beginning of this interview, I now like to consume new music on my bicycle right here, so having said all that, Sunbeats stood out to me while wandering through the beaches of Tofino BC. The exchange of sun and beach, just nailed the sonics of that song. But you give the track an even deeper meaning. A vessel for the message, “How good it feels just to be”. That line had a pretty profound impact on me while I was away. Can you talk about what that message means to you?

KG: Yeah, well, I mean, a few things come up, maybe just backtracking a bit when we were talking about how we consume music. I drive a lot, and, like, listening to music in the car, is actually my favourite way to do it. Also, just that feeling of being in motion, in liminal spaces, the meditative aspect of just repetitive scenery and ingraining things, which I think was definitely somewhat at play, whith samples and the kind of repetition in that song, Sunbeats. Actually, on the previous releases, I was using a lot of samples and maybe that's something a record label isn't super stoked on. When you don't clear them, and just kind of grab them off YouTube. So, as a kind of compromised, I just only did it on this one song, just full of a lot of musical samples and movie quotes.

That one line you're talking about is Peter Falk in Wings of Desire, which is like a pretty important movie for me. And you know, have you seen that movie?

Wim Wenders’ ‘Wings Of Desire”(1987)

IM: I haven't.

KG: It's great, and it's like these two angels are in Cold War, Berlin, overseeing lives and like, you get the inner monologue of all these different characters, and Peter Falk is somehow has the ability to somewhat interact with these angels. Anyway, it's really cool. It does not sound good from what I just said. It's a great movie. And that's something that I've watched many times and kind of means something different to me each time. I'm really fascinated with recontextualizing things or just taking, like, a nerdy movie sample like that, and then it might mean something pretty different to me when I was making the song or to someone when they were listening to it, depending on the time and place.

IM: All right, back to music through memory and motion. I go back to a memory of being in my parents' Toyota Tercel with my sister and our German shepherd vying for space in the back, on our way to Gloucester, Massachusetts. Which is, you know, a bit of a drive. Back then, Karma Chameleon, was playing every hour on the hour. And when I hear that song to this day, I'm instantly taken back there. It's the only thing that comes to mind. I also get a little bit of an inner chuckle at the fact that I'm now interviewing karma Glider, and we're talking about this. Are there songs to your life soundtrack that you associate with the experience of travel?

KG: Yes, there are definitely a few. I love that thing where I think life rhymes a lot of the time, and you can kind of see the synchronicity in certain things. I also actually have very clear memories of when I was young, my family would, never go on vacation, we would just take these, long road trips from New Brunswick to, like, Ontario. My dad would insist on doing it one, like, dangerous 18 hour shot, and we would just be crammed… my two sisters in the back seat. And I would have my Walkman on, and t was pretty big for me, just just listening to, like, certain tapes, mainly that I'd gotten from my older sisters, like over and over again. There's a U2 album, Achtung Baby that I remember listening to a lot of when I was like, yeah, maybe 14 years old or something.

IM: That was also one of the soundtracks for me too, that first real relationship of mine. The first love, first breakup.

KG: It's a crazy album, man. U2 doesn't really get the respect it deserves sometimes. They do get a lot of disrespect. I agree with a lot of that.

IM: I got to see that show and The Pixies opened, and at that time, The Pixies had just blown my mind, much like the Velvet Undergrounded would, of course probably a little bit later.So it is important for me in that respect, that it enabled me to see The Pixies.

KG: That's a crazy bill, man. U2, can be pretty lame a lot of the time. But they also, I think, just worked with really interesting people. They were actually working with Wim Wenders a lot who made Wings of Desire. And there's this one songnt Until the End of the World that they made for one of his movies that's on Achtung Baby.

IM: Yeah, and in fact, Patti Smith covered it years later on a compilation, and I think that's testament to the power of that song.

KG: 100%. I hear motion. whenever I hear that song, and it's really interesting, There are rhymes that song that would appear later in my life.

IM: I think now, reflecting back on U2, and it's not a band that I really pull out to listen to anymore, but I can't negate the importance of them as part of my youth. And I think they're a band that..that's where they're supposed to be, is they're supposed to hit those chords when you're younger. Maybe before you discover other things that might be more…

KG: Well, they're almost like … or were, like a gateway. I don't think they're really that with it anymore, but, you know, I've thought a lot about how those big records they made in the 80s, like at that time to get Daniel Lanois and Brian Eno to produce their record was not an obvious choice at all. So they were like clearly plugged into Roxy Music and stuff that was like not top 40 or whatever, which they went on to do. So I think I think it kind of makes sense that they have some of that in their bloodline or whatever.

IM: While we were away, my daughter was shopping, spending some of her vacation money in a clothing store in Vancouver, and the original version of Sunday's Bloody Sunday came over the sound system. That's a song that for people my generation, it was part of growing up. It was your first rebellion song or, you know..

KG: Every drumme;s first drum beat.

IM: Yeah, yeah exactly. I was kind of hit with the fact that I hadn't heard it in so long, and it is quite removed from where they are now.. But again, that's also, you know, maybe you have to question if you're in music and you're creating art over 40 plus years, there's no way, It's just not humanly possible whether you're The Rolling Stones and we never had the opportunity to see if The Beatles were the same, but there's no way that it can maintain the same..And you have to change.

KG: Dude, the new, well, the new Rolling Stones music that I've heard is very bad. And I would argue has not changed from like, what they were doing that was cool 40 plus years ago, right? So, I mean, at least U2 put themselves out there to some degree.

IM: Yeah, they they tried to flip the page a couple of times, in their own playbook.

KG: Yeah, definitely didn't always work out, but I do think Achtung Baby is a great record. So I've got an older car and I've got a CD player in it, which is also sick, and I should have said this earlier, but one of my favourite ways of getting music now is just going to thrift stores, and they're practically giving away CDs, man. So, like, bumping like an album from the '90s that cost, like $500,000 to make on, like a CD, which is much higher quality as you're cruising around, it kind of like feels like a pretty different experience from just earbuds & Spotify kind of thing. And I put on the, what was the record? All That You Can't Leave Behind.. a U2 2000s record? . Which I just kind of bought'cause it was a dollar, but I was like, there's something, , legit bangers on this. Pretty good songwriting.

IM: It just goes to show kids, you’ve got to scour those thrift shops, you'll find some treasure.

IM: All right, for your track Diamonds, it has one of my favourite lyrics, “Reflecting back on being young in Montreal, good shit, bad shit. Can't compare to the star going down in your stare”. The disappointment we might, conjure in someone can be a very powerful force.. Can you talk about that track Diamonds?

KG:Yeah, well, that's a special one for me 'cause it's actually a cover. My good friend, Matt Peri, wrote that song in like 2008 or something and I used to play in his band and I would play bass on that song.

IM: What was the band? Uh, It was called… It went through a bunch of different names. It was just called Matt Peri for a while….. But we were just like drinking 40s behind Bar St. Laurent and then coming in and playing some super sloppy sets, But yeah, at that point, we were living in St. Henry, which was at least for our friend group, who are all very mile end, centric. It was like, we were just lived in a different planet and we were definitely in the throes of vice and my girlfriend is living there. I think everyone probably looks back on what it's like to be 20 years old with a mixture of emotions. For me, I think because so much of that time is enshrouded in addiction and frankly, regrets for me, it was kind of interesting for me to cover the song that was written at that time. And I changed the lyrics a little bit, and maybe it was an act of me, kind of reclaiming some of what was special about that time and that relationship, which was disfunctional, certainly, on my end, 100%, but, yeah, just looking back at like old relationships from a different perspective, I think a lot of FromThe Haze OF A Revved Up Youth is about that, it was one of the last ones I decided to put on the record, and I think at that point, maybe the whole record had started to, like, reveal itself to me as me looking back at my youth and so this song just kind of captured something about being there at that time, and the sloppiness of it, but also seeing some beauty in those moments.

IM: Do you think the reflection back on past relationships and, you know, we all do it at some point and look back at our failures or the hardships that we go through as younger people, do you think with you, it's a matter of age?… or is it something greater than that?

KG: I think it could be. Age is definitely a factor of it. Also, I think certainly I just have this tendency to look back, right? Like, which is not always a healthy thing. Sometimes you have to move on. Actually, this whole process, and especially now having released the record and maybe doing interviews about it has kind of helped me, I think, exercise some of this stuff and maybe leave some of it behind, kind of move on, because I've always just had this this obsession with the past and looking back, like, I could or should have done this differently, But you know, some of that stuff, you just have to bury it at a certain point, move on to your life.

IM: Well, I'm a bit of a late bloomer, I always have been, but I think whatever you've gone through as far as self reflection and looking back and the “should haves”, “could haves” or “what would have beens”.. I'm only now going through in recent years. I think it comes with making moves that I didn't think I would do, or that for the first time in my life, I might be challenged or facing fears that I never really confronted. After starting Petit Village Records,I just had this looming sense over the last three years, like, fuck, I should have done this 15 years ago when my heart was aching to do it and I probably sedated myself to some extent just to make that feeling go away. But everyone around me seems to be trying to push the idea that it wasn't meant to be then, and I’m doing it now because I had to go through those hoops. So I don't know what I'm trying to say here, except that…

KG: No, I hear you.

IM: It's probably the same thing for you, Sus… that you can't…. Well, I'm not trying to tell you. It's just an observation, but you are doing what you're doing now on a level that you're doing it because of the stuff that you you've gone through, and those questions that you've asked yourself.

KG: So are you, brother. I mean, that really resonates with me and look, that thing in my head, in our heads of, like, it should have happened a certain way. It didn't. That's just fantasy on my end, right? Like, here we are now. And I think it's also important for me, maybe for everyone to give credit to ourselves, for most people, it is really challenging to leave your comfort zone, almost no one does that, right? I think it actually gets harder, the older you get, essentially, I went back to school, I got my driver's license, when I was 32, and,I think that was much harder than if I just done that shit at 16. And it would have been very easy for me to just never do that. I feel like I'm starting over because I have a new band and I'll often be like, “oh, I should have just like kept the thing in my 20s, the band I was in then. But like those things, they just have to happen so you can grow to be in the next place and be ready for the thing you have now. You know, certainly with what you're doing, it's, I think, really admirable to follow that call that you have, right?

IM: Well, I think much like you or any other artist, I like to think that the work you leave behind is your legacy. Like, when you're in the ground or wherever one goes, once everything passes, your music is still going to be around and there for people to discover. I felt for me, after years of doing carpentry, I did get a sense of satisfaction on a day to day basis, and to some extent, I can walk around different areas or bars or restaurants that I helped to build and look at those. That's something. But it wasn't something that really had any value to me, but music always had value. And I think there was a game of maybe if I ignore it, it'll go away, and then you just you get to a point where it's not going anywhere and you have to start dealing with the fact that you need to address it. So I think for me, it was a point of… I wanted something to be left behind that I was proud of.

KG: Yeah, and I think it's really easy to get into the trappings of just… whatever… getting by. Capitalism, comfort, and, like, at a certain point that kind of breaks for me and I'm just like, I want something more, I want, essentially, not to be so too “woo” about it, but it's like a spiritual thing for me, and it's about connection and so much of this process for me, maybe you relate also with starting out and building something up, community wise, you know, and I know Petit Village has it… it's in the title, right? Community. It's very easy for me to get lost and be like, thisis isn't what it's supposed to be. It's not here, it's not there. What's the value? What am I going to leave behind? Where's the articles on some fucking stupid blog or something? But really, the lasting value, I think, and what we'll carry on is the fact that like to go to shows and I see my friends and I play shows with people and it's very… one-on-one and we release stuff and we have bonds, and we unknowingly kind of affect people. I think also showing up, for me anyway, I hope, with a better attitude than I did in my 20s, trying to help people, trying to support that and that carries over and has ripple effects that we don't even know about.

IM: Not to sound “hokey pokey” about this or as you said, “woo”, um lately, on my trip, I dove into RZA's book, The Tao of Wu.

KG:Oh, sick.

IM: I’ve gotten certain lessons from his experiences, all that to say, what we were just discussing, whether you're RZA from the Wu-Tang Clan or, you know, a young musician in Montreal that we haven't heard yet, I think all of what you just said applies. 100% for everyone.. There was a passage in his book talking about fear and how he used to fear certain things, and then he realized that the only thing he should fear is whatever higher power there is, because that in his view, is what controls everything.

Is there anything... in this whole process after doing it for so long and being an artist and a writer and a musician, is there anything about it that conjures fear for you?

KG: Oh, yeah, all the time. I mean, I fuck with that too. Obviously, I love Wu-Tang and RZA, and I definitely also pretty into Tao Te Ching and like reading a lot of that stuff, which frankly, usually I just don't even understand at least cryptic kind of passages, but maybe it unblocks something and maybe for me, I'm also realizing there's this great desire to understand everything for me, to rationalize it. Essentially, it's control. Right. And even, I think, to some extent, looking back at the past, overthinking, obsessing over things, that's a measure of trying to assert control over things that are just out of my control, right?

I'm afraid of most things, I'm afraid of things that are outside of my control, and there's definitely different ways of coping that I think we all do., but fear is the mind killer, right? And like, I think a lot of the times when I do try and contain things that are uncontainable, maybe I'll try and direct things a certain way. I'm kind of obstructing myself. What I'm seeing more and more is just as a path that, yeah, a higher power has in store for me or all of us, or something. So that, increasingly, I'm just trying to, like, not block that and just show up to things and be “Allright, this is how it is”. Like, I'm where I'm supposed to be. Just take the next step. Just show up to the next thing, try and align myself to be receptive and, you know, properly in tune with whatever frequencies is emanating right now, but, yeah, I mean, I'm afraid of tons of stuff. I think we all are, but everything is, if I just turn that off and show up, there's, a lot of really special connections and beautiful moments of my life, I've just kind of tuned out and not really been aware were right in front of me the whole time. So I'm trying to show up more. If that makes any sense. Yeah, and I think it speaks to the fact that, like, fear is a powerful force that we can't ignore, but we can channel into some sort of energy that, you know, pushes us through it, I guess.

IM: Fall into Love….

KG: Fall Into You…

IM: Fall In To You. Sorry. I've been told writing love songs is not easy, and one might argue that writing an angry song is a lot… Let me rephrase that. I've been told that writing love songs are harder than writing angry songs.. For one, do you think that's true, in that maybe you have to dig from a deeper place emotionally rather than just relying on imagery or maybe criticism or something of that ilk?. And second to this question, is there a love song in your life that's gone the distance?

KG: Well, for the first part, I think, you know, I think it's easy to use stock tropes for any type of song, whether it's angry or love or like, you know, you look at the first Beatles records, which are amazing, but they're all just, like, pretty generic lyrically. Hand me down lyrics, until they kind of matured as musicians. Oh, and I love the stock stuff, too, you know, like all the girl group kind of informed music at that time. I think a lot of the songs I write tend to be somewhat more oriented around love than anger, for the most part, but it depends. Depends where you're at time of day. Sorry, could you remind me with the second part of your questions is?

IM: Fucking love it, man. Excellent answer. Back to what you were saying about The Beatles and… maybe in hindsight, the clichés or the mundane nature of some of the earlylyrics. How important to you at the end of the day, whether it's a love song an angry song, a pop song… are lyrics versus melody or, you know, the sound itself. Are you someone that necessarily needs a witty, well fought out, well planned line, to quote Glenn Donaldson from San Francisco’s The Reds, Pinks & Purples, some people can build a world within a song with one phrase or just two chords.

KG: Truth.. Or both, perhaps. Or both. I think with time, I've been more into lyrics… lately than I was for a long time, I actually just never really listened to the lyrics. I maybe just catch. like, the chorus highlight or whatever, a witticism that I really liked. But, yeah, with time more and more, I'm kind of into them. I spent more time on some of these lyrics. I think it can be really powerful to, like, alternate between hyper-personal and being maybe more glib. And when I listen to music now, I mean, this is almost certainly a result of getting older, but I'm kind of digging more into the back catalogues of, like, you know, later period. Dylan or I've listened to a lot of '80s Van Morrison, who I think is a very underrated lyricist at that point in time..

I don't know, it just it speaks to me in it. I guess I'm just at a different place in my life. I don't know about anyone else, but for me, when I was 19 listening to music, it's like, I didn't really know anything about it, myself or the world or life..

IM: In terms of melody, for me, it's always been…. I don't describe myself as a musician, but I have spent time in my bedroom with a guitar trying to chase melody.So to me, it's something intangible, like, magic or like wizardry. And I'm always even still at 50 blown away by a melody that really resonates with me. When it comes to you writing music, does melody come naturally? Can you describe where that comes from? Is it something that you work at, like a math equation, or would it be something that might come to you in your sleep or in a, you know, a corner that you weren't expecting?

KG: I agree with you. I think there is something about melody that's much more. nebulous and kind of just, like plucked from the ether. There's something magical about it. Where did this come from? It's fascinating, right? And there's lots of. I don't know. It's a little bit less rational, I think. Although I had noticed… and maybe this is me projecting, but I feel like it gets back to what we were talking about, this idea of controlling the uncontrollable, or just a desire to, logically figure everything out. I've noticed nowadays, it's 2025 we live in pretty uncertain times, and I know that uncertainty as a musician, it's like, what is even going on, the economy, the world, blah, blah, blah. Overssaturation of information. I've noticed there's there’s alwaysl something in my algorithm, as a musician, so many videos about like, solving exactly how to like, place a melody or produce the exact thing. There's a lot of videos I get to like, how to replicate a certain sound or capture lightning in a bottle. And I feel like, yeah, it's maybe just a reflection of the times we're in. Everyone is so fearful, essentially, of like, how to survive in this day and age, that it's like, there's this obsession in music, how to exactly control, you know, the muse, essentially. I get so much of this, like, manishere of stuff, that shows up in my feed about how to have a six pack and six figure income and side hustle and it's just so much about, like, marshalling yourself towards commanding everything, which to me seems very much like a reaction of the, you know, the unknown, the unknown times that we live in.

IM: I imagine when you do find “the flow”. and you do conjure that melody. It must feel pretty fucking good.

KG: Yeah, it has. It's interesting to think of a record as like, it's done, and songs are complete, but these are just photographs, right? Like, they're just capturing a moment in time when I did all this stuff. If I see a photo of you, that's. Ian. Done. Like, that was him directly. These things keep evolving. I think playing stuff live also is really cool because we try and change arrangements and make things kind of flow more and things keep evolving. It does feel good when things line into place, and a lot of this collection of songs, I've had some of these songs for a really long time, and maybe it worked four years ago a certain way, and then I came back to it, and then it unlocked something. So I'm very into revisiting things…

IM: That's a perfect segue to the next question. Wait For You….returns from your solo effort Inception 2. Which, again, is one of the best titles.

KG: That title might be one of my finest moments.

IM: Can you discuss what brings the song back around? And what Wait For You means to you personally, either initially or now after revisiting it. I love the tip of the hat to one of my favourite bands, Jesus and Mary Chain. What were some of the influenences surrounding you while making The Haze Of a Revved Up Youth?

KG: Good questions. Well, Wait For You, I kind of I wrote that song in 2018. and I just gotten out of this project. It's the band Heat I was in for a lot of years in my 20s and I kind of picked up steam, but then fell apart and I think I was trying to like put the pieces back together, figuring out what my next musical move was. I was doing a lot of bedroom pop, and just like programming stuff in my computer and I think at that point, I was like, oh, like, I don't even need a band. Like, fuck that, I'll just program everything and make it. When I listen back to it now, I don't think it's as good as I thought it was. But it's cool. And yeah, that song came up because I I just got into this relationship and it hadn't worked out and I don't know, I just wrote this song, I decided to put this music out very quickly. Some of the guys in Karma Glider heard it and offered to be in the backing band, which eventually just turned into Karma Glider.

This is kind of the the backstory of some of the how the record was made. We were about to start playing shows in 2020 and in the pandemic hit. So it went from, like, my solo band / shows with the backing bands to the pandemic where there are no shows.Let's just rehearse for fun and a certain point, we're like, let's record a bunch of these songs as a band, including Wait for You, and we started doing that. In, I think, 2021..started what was going to be the record. I ran out of money, and decided to just do an EP with some of the songs. And then instead of finishing it, I did another EP, and then finally, I was like, all right, I got to finish this record.

Interestingly enough, I ended up dating that same person again, as I was making the record, and so that had this, kind of meaning to me. So we decided to put it on, and at one point in the record, I’d just, I'd spend like, four or five years on it. I'd layered so much stuff. I just scrapped most of the guitars and redid everything, like, pretty quickly.

Moving into the second part of your question. Um, a lot of my influences, I proudly wear on my sleeve and I don't think I'm fooling anyone with The Jesus and Mary Chain nod, right? That's pretty overt. They're 100% one of my favourite bands of all time, if not my favourite band of all time. And so I was listening to a lot of that, trying to capture that vibe, that song in particular. I was listening to a lot of this band called The Horrors. A lot of their guitar work, especially being really influential, a band I mentioned earlier called The Radio Dept.. They're kind of like lo-fi.

IM: Awesome. I also feel like we should give a shout out to your band. Do you want to just quickly talk about who was with you recording and like who makes up the band in 20205?

KG: Yeah, so yeah, they're all close friends of mine. Jean-Philippe Bourgeois, who also works with Mothland Records, who put out our record, is our bass player.

IM: I have to say, after seeing you guys for the first time, I did go up to him afterwards to say those are some pretty tight low end grooves He lockes into…

KG: Yeah, he's a killer bass player. I feel like very honoured to have these guys, just for their musical capability, and also for their friendship as part of the group. The drummer is also named Jean-Philippe Godbout, also an amazing performer. Those guys grew up together.. They're like childhood best friends, they're like, born on the same day. It’s just hilarious. They're both named JP!. It's just this package deal of, like, the tightest…

IM: It's the universe.

KG: Yeah. It reminds me of, like, the fucking. The Ashton brothers or like, just one of these like old school rhythm sections. My friend Charlie Neufelt is playing guitar and he does some vocals as well. He's a really old friend of mine. He played in HEAT and we played in each other's projects since we were like teenagers, basically. And then the last member, the live band is Wesley MacNeill, who plays keys, also just like great fucking dude, incredible musician. He’s actually also a much better guitar player than me and singer. And then my friend Matt Peri did some backs, my friend Cameron MacLean did some backing vocals as well as Yang Shi,

Yeah, there's a few more people on the record. The producers, Adrian Propovich, and Joseph Donovan.

IM: Shout out Adrian Popovich.

KG: Yeah, Legends. They're on the record a little bit too playing guitar and stuff. So, yeah, it's definitely like a team effort on that one.

IM: Given that, as you were saying before, the band coming to fruition as a real live entity, post quarantine. Is there an aspect of doing it alone that trump's working with others, or do you prefer the group?

KG: I prefer the group, especially, I mean, I feel like that's been part of my journey. when I was describing the Inceptionception 2 project around 2018, I had been in a band and I really struggled in my 20s with being the songwriter and the front man and also trying to open things up to different members, there was a lot of ego in it, frankly, for me. And when that fell apart, I think I had a reaction of being like, I'm going to... I'm the centre of this.

I'm going to control everything, I'm gonna dictate what happens, I'll play all the parts, but bit by bit, I started letting people in, and I think even finishing this record now, there's a lot of stuff I wish I'd ceded control or just had more input from other people, and that's kind of where my mind is at right now. Perhaps also in line with philosophically getting out of my own way, letting the universe show up, just letting other people into the process and certainly that's how I feel the project is aligned right now. Less me, frankly.

IM: On the track The Breaking Light… “Follow you. I can't be free”.. The idea of only being free while untethered to someone, else is a very powerful sentiment, we do give up a part of ourselves when we're in love or in relationships. And we do things we might not otherwise do if we were to be on our own. Sometimes we get to reinvent ourselves in the moment, in real time while falling in love, where you might auto-correct certain things about you because you don't want these people to see that.. It's almost like sacrificing yourself for something better. Being in a band is similar.. When you're putting pen to paper now, after what we've just discussed, is Karma Glider one man with a band, or is Karma Glider a band? Like a four-headed beast or a five headed beast or six headed beast?

KG: I think it's probably currently the former, if I'm moving towards the ladder. I think we'll see what happens, but it certainly started off in the mould of Spiritualized, being the only crucial member with other things moving around it. And maybe it still is that, I don't know, but I'm more open to whatever happens.

IM: I didn't, ask you the first time round, or the second or third time we we've done interviews. But can you get into the name Karma Glider? When I've mentioned it to people who don't know your music, everyone unanimously says, "Oh, that's an awesome name”… and I'm just curious. where are the motivation for that name came from?

KG: I don't think I understand what the name means, to be honest. But there's a certain point and I don't envy anyone who goes through the process of naming a band, because it's always the same. You go through, like, 40 different things. It's like, oh, we should be called…, " You come up with something and then you sleep on it… and you think back, that's the worst fucking name.

And when you think about it, every band name, like, kind of sucks when you first hear it, I've said this before, but, like, The Beatles, was like the worst band name… But no one thinks about that now, because you just think about the music and it's supersedes HEAT was not SEO friendly and like hard to find. And now that we stopped doing things its seems to just like, have disappeared into the ether of the internet. So I wanted something a little bit more unique, and glider was kind of a word that I was attacted to right away because of the My Bloody Valentine’s “Glider” EP and I was just kind of trying to test out different words to place in front of glider, karma. eventually became one.

IM: The way I always interpreted it, It's sort of like a self awareness of trying to be better, and no matter how hard we try, nothing's a straight line, so you might sort of glide in and out of good or bad karma.

KG: Yeah, that's essentially it, but I also like that from one day to next, I even interpret it a different way, and I think there's room to just meet that name, wherever you are, and it means something different to you. That essentially is what I liked about it, that you could kind of project your own experience onto it.

IM: Can you discuss the compromise of writing songs and then collaborating with other musicians to either record or play them live. Was there anything maybe you can point to on this album that you thought was going one way and then through group collaboration turned out different, I'm assuming to your pleasant surprise.

KG: Well, yeah, that's a good question. To be honest, I think I'm trying to break out of the mould of how I think almost every single song in this record was made, except maybe the last one, Breakdown.

Breakdown is the very last song on the album, that's a song that I I first wrote when I was 23. It was actually the first song I wrote for that band HEAT, and when started playing it, it sounded very different. We kind of never quite got it right throughout the years, and then when I brought it to these guys, the whole arrangement kind of changed in the vibe, and being much more Stones-y, a Primal Scream kind of energy came from the band.

IM: I'm glad you brought up Breakdown. It is the last one I want to discuss, and you've just informed me that the song actually predates,your effort to better yourself and lay your demons to rest?

KG: Yeah.

IM: As far as addiction and finding sobriety or, you know, an inner peace, I find it interesting that..and it’s my interpretation, that you saw it coming. You knew that this tough thing was going to be ahead of you, it's a self awareness or self realization. So to put it more eloquently, can you discuss the clarity one finds. The push towards self improvement comes with the realization that you're going to have to go through something really difficult. I think anyone that crashes and reaches rock bottom, it's one thing to realize that, but to understand the effort at hand to get through it is… I can imagine like one of the hardest things that someone has to go through. It's almost like a complete rewiring of oneself. Was there a song or an album when you were going through this hard time that was an anchor for you?

KG: Good question. So I wrote that song when it was 23. And it was a period where just the substance abuse was coming to a head. And I think people can bottom out on anything. It doesn't have to be drugs or alcohol, it can be, you know. relying on someone or like a negative thought process or whatever, right? Like a lack of spirituality. I think that was a crucial moment for me, because, dude, I wrote that song when I was trying to quit drinking when I was 23. I tried to quit when I was 21. I tried to quit when I was 16. It was always an issue. I consider myself lucky that my alcoholism was so blatant, because there was no denying it. Things were just falling apart, like very, very visibly. So the the denial was was there, but it's harder to maintain.t I think there's a moment too, where, like, you can have that realization, you can even have the willingness, but until there's a moment of grace, which is what bottoming out is.. just giving up. And that's an intangible thing. I can't advise anyone on how to get there, but until you hit that point, l it's just intense.

For me, I think the grace also came from just letting go and letting people into my life to help me, 'cause I was trying to do all this on my own and still just coming up against these same breakdowns, essentially. And I think at that point I kept breaking down, but I'm not getting past it…. is there going to be a “big one” that's gonna interfere this cycle or something? It did come years later, I guess. But to get to that place where where I could let go of my ways, I don't know, everyone just has their own journey. A lot of people just never get there. There's a bunch of things in my life that I haven't let go of yet. Hopefully I will, but.. you know, until until I got to that place, I couldn't really see through it. So I thought it was really interesting to to end this record with a song from that time. And you know, a lot of these songs were from different points, and just with some perspective where I'm at now… it means something quite different. It's almost like ending at the beginning of this whole process. I've unfortunately completely forgotten the question.

IM: I think you answered it. I want to point out that I think in our first interview back in 2020, when you were talking about collapsing Heat in order to move on heal, I think that's an incredibly brave act to kill something that you love and not knowing if it's going to come back. After listening to Breakdown, I tried to think of what in my life, and I haven't had quite the same journey as far as like overcoming, you know, certain demons. But in quitting smoking, which was really difficult for me, I had to stop drinking, alcohol, I had to stop drinking coffee. All those patterns that I associated with it only to eventually be able to come back and drink coffee, or enjoy a pint of beer, but you're sort of on a a tighter rope as far as what you gave up. I just want to say, I think getting back into rock and roll, which in itself can be a magnet for so many bad habits for people.

KG: Absolutely.

IM: I find it really brave that you're able to do it, and you've come out, better.

KG: Thanks for saying that, man. I mean, yeah, that really means a lot to me, and I consider you a friend, so to hear that is very… I appreciate it. I think maybe part of this whole record, and looking back at all this stuff and letting go is kind of a way of me owning, it. Yeah, you can go back to the things that caused you pain and you can you can be a different person. There's this saying, I love… “No person can enter the same river twice. It's a different person. It’s a different river”, right? So, like to go back to being in a band and playing shows or whatever,, all these trigger things, like, if you changed you can go and you can share your experience and connect with people and help the next person out, and it an be powerful.

IM: Awesome. I think that's a great place to end it, and I don't think it could have been said any better.

KG: Thanks, man. I really appreciate it..

Karma Glider’s “From The Haze Of A Revved Up Youth” is out now via MOTHLAND.